Dawkinswatch

Exposing Evolution As A Mess and Atheism As Hot-Air!

Atheism and Gnostism II

with 22 comments

My policy is to let the Atheists show their lack of class and you can see it now that we are dealing with philosophy that they are getting rather agitated.

I will let Springmeier explain gnostism to them again, maybe they might understand but this a huge area and I encourage my bethren to understand that you have to dig deeper.


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Written by dawkinswatch

March 7, 2008 at 3:13 pm

22 Responses

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  1. “My policy is to let the Atheists show their lack of class and you can see it now that we are dealing with philosophy that they are getting rather agitated.”

    Flabbergasting; you think that we are the ones who are showing our lack of class. Look at you, you:

    – Freely equate Communism with Atheism and call Dawkins a Communist.

    – Call those who do not believe ancient books “Dawkinites” and “Darwinists”.

    – Deny, without any substantive evidence, common descent, a theory that is in as much disrepute as the theory that the Earth is round.

    Now, you’re posting rants about Gnosticism that make absurd claims about atheists.

    Cheers to your lack of class.

    J. Frantz

    March 7, 2008 at 4:38 pm

  2. No you miss the point, atheism is for the profane at least gnostics are sophisated.

    dawkinswatch

    March 7, 2008 at 6:56 pm

  3. Not believing ancient books is for the profane? Gnostics are sophisticated for having more superstitions than people like Daniel Dennett?

    J. Frantz

    March 7, 2008 at 9:30 pm

  4. J Frantz please point to me any atheist hero who was not a closet gnostic?

    here you are then, atheism has no atheist heroes.

    Einstein, Russell, Newton, Freud, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Marx were all secret mystery men.

    Wow,You need to read more books and switch off the television, you might understand the world then.

    dawkinswatch

    March 7, 2008 at 10:18 pm

  5. Einstein, Russell, Newton, and Freud were all gnostics? Back that up.

    But you’re really missing the point: there are no atheist heros, and if there are, Mao, Marx, Stalin, and Hitler aren’t among them. It might make you happy to know that Hitler was a committed Christian, and that his Christian beliefs motivated him to massacre the Jews.

    Atheism is not believing stupid things. That means that the vast majority of modern scientists are atheists, and “atheist heros”, if you must.

    J. Frantz

    March 7, 2008 at 11:13 pm

  6. Some quotes of the “mystery men” of atheism:

    “On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God’s name on one’s behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I’m frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of conservatism.”
    – Barry Goldwater, Speech in the US Senate (16 September 1981)

    “My practise as a scientist is atheistic. That is to say, when I set up an experiment I assume that no god, angel, or devil is going to interfere with its course; and this assumption has been justified by such success as I have achieved in my professional career. I should therefore be intellectually dishonest if I were not also atheistic in the affairs of the world. And I should be a coward if I did not state my theoretical views in public.”
    – JBS Haldane, quoted in Evolution-the Fossils Say Yes!

    “[I]f history and science have taught us anything, it is that passion and desire are not the same as truth. The human mind evolved to believe in the gods. It did not evolve to believe in biology. Acceptance of the supernatural conveyed a great advantage throughout prehistory, when the brain was evolving. Thus it is in sharp contrast to biology, which was developed as a product of the modern age and is not underwritten by genetic algorithms. The uncomfortable truth is that the two beliefs are not factually compatible. As a result those who hunger for both intellectual and religious truth will never acquire both in full measure.”
    – Edward O. Wilson, Concilience

    Dan

    March 8, 2008 at 8:17 am

  7. J Franz

    Let us look at one gnostic organisation the theosophical society, it includes Edison and Einstein.

    click below
    http://www.katinkahesselink.net/his/influence-theosophy.html

    Russell it is obvious just because the Russell family gives Charles Tayze Russell the founder of the Watchtower Society. (source Spngmeier The Watchtower and the Masons) ussell was involved with the Fabian Society and the Coefficient Club ( or the pentagram as they were dubbed by one member H.G. Wells) Springmeier has written a great de on the Russell family history.

    Newton I have dealt with his freemasonry links.

    Freud he was a practioner of sodomy rites, please watch the Meggido II google video.

    Was Hitler a chrisn? No, anyone who has watch a video I provided called the occult history of Nazism will know truth.

    dawkinswatch

    March 9, 2008 at 11:10 pm

  8. Dawkinswatch,
    It’s interesting that you avoid altogether citing what Russell, Einstein and others actually wrote about their views on religion.

    A reference that might be useful to you:

    Carl Sagan and Ann Druyan’s The Varieties of Scientific Experience, and the much earlier writing of William James upon which Sagan’s book is based (The Varieties of Religious Experience).

    Also, I find it funny that you deny the obvious link between Hitler and Christianity. I’m sure that his view on Christianity conflicts with yours, but who are you to call another man’s Christianity un-Christian?

    Dan

    March 10, 2008 at 11:32 am

  9. … darn html code…

    Dan

    March 10, 2008 at 11:57 am

  10. Dan you lack knowledge, do you not know the links between Nazism and Madame Blavastky? Obviously you have not research the Thule Society and the Vril Society. Please tell us how that is christianity. you chest beater you?

    dawkinswatch

    March 11, 2008 at 1:35 pm

  11. LOL

    That’s your response – that Hitler was just making it all up? Go back and read this again then.

    Dan

    March 11, 2008 at 1:53 pm

  12. By the way, looking up Blavatsky and the Thule and Vril Societies…

    Blavatsky was a spiritualist opposed to anti-Semitism, and thus could not have fueled Hitler’s anti-Semitism.

    A Vril Society is not mentioned in the extensive biography of Hitler by Ian Kershaw, nor in the one by Alan Bullock, nor the biography of Hermann Göring by Werner Maser, nor the book about the history of the Schutzstaffel (SS) by Heinz Hoehne.

    The Thule Society, originally the Studiengruppe für germanisches Altertum ‘Study Group for Germanic Antiquity’, was a German occultist and Völkisch group in Munich, named after a mythical northern country from Greek legend. The Society is notable chiefly as the organization that sponsored the Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, which was later transformed by Adolf Hitler into the Nazi Party. Hitler, however, was never a member of the Thule Society.

    Not to mention that these are occult groups. Hitler despised occultism, as told in Mein Kampf.

    Dan

    March 11, 2008 at 4:03 pm

  13. Wait- Hitler dispised the occult? I guess Castle Wofenstein makes for bad history. Still wasn’t he interested in recovering the Holy Grail? I know it is a relic, not occult, but what is the differance between the two? Is it just one is Christian magic stuff and one is other magic or is there some sort of insane classification system.

    Samuel Skinner

    March 11, 2008 at 6:07 pm

  14. No argument here on that – Hitler did capitalize on the occult-based aspects of his fellow Nazi’s, as well as appropriating symbols to meet his own ends, including claiming to search for both the Spear of Destiny and the Holy Grail. He also appropriated many other symbols where it held usefulness for propaganda (the swastica was originally a Roman symbol – the First Reich). These were a means to an end, not the end itself.

    To figure out what he actually believed in however, you have to actually read what he wrote and said. Mein Kampf and this are quite explicit in his belief in a provincial Christian God (despite his distaste for “traditional” Christianity), and his dislike for the mysticism in which he used to his own ends (when he was speaking honestly about his motives in Mein Kampf that is.

    So no, once again, Dawkinswatch doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Big surprise.

    Dan

    March 11, 2008 at 7:39 pm

  15. Dan you are all over the place, please do not tell me about major biography of Hitler, I tell you what is known about Hitler and the third reich, if the biographer did not include it , he is not much of a historian then.

    dawkinswatch

    March 13, 2008 at 6:52 pm

  16. If they’re all bad historians, why are you a measly economist? You should write a book and set them straight. LOL

    Dan

    March 13, 2008 at 7:18 pm

  17. Da books have been written on the Nazis and their Occult connections.

    dawkinswatch

    March 18, 2008 at 1:11 pm

  18. Between the Nazis in general and their Occult connections, yes. Not specifically between Hitler and the Occult.

    Once again, read Mein Kampf and get a clue as to what Hitler himself actually believed.

    Dan

    March 18, 2008 at 1:26 pm

  19. From a respected historian, commenting on the Thule Society:

    Hitler…had little time for the whole Thule business, once it had carried him where he needed to be…he could see the political worthlessness of paganism [i.e. what Goodrick-Clarke would describe as the racist-occult complex of Ariosophy] in Christian Germany. Neither did the Führer’s plans for his Thousand-year Reich have any room whatever for the heady love of individual liberty with which the Thuleans romantically endowed their Nordic ancestors. [from: Joscelyn Godwin. 1996. Arktos: The Polar Myth in Science, Symbolism, and Nazi Survival. (page 57)]

    Moreover, while the occult connections are behind the rise of the National Socialist Party (Nazism), by 1923 the Thule Society had ceased to functionally exist. Some party members continued in their occultist views, but this was no longer on a party-wide basis. In fact, Nazi authorities (Hitler himself?) had some members of the party ostracized (including Rudolf von Sebottendorff, one of the Thule founders) by the 1930’s.

    So clearly, suggesting that Hitler was an occultist is unsubstantiated, and as I said, completely inconsistent with parts of Mein Kampf.

    Dan

    March 18, 2008 at 1:45 pm

  20. Hmm.. since I’m repeatedly referencing Mein Kampf, perhaps I should quote what he has to say about the Nazi party (which he refers to as the German Workers’ Party:

    I began to ponder back and forth. I had long been resolved to engage in political activity; that this could be done only in a new movement was likewise clear to me, only the impetus to act had hitherto been lacking.I am not one of those people who begin something today and lay it down tomorrow,if possible taking up something else again. This very conviction among others was the main reason why it was so hard for me to make up my mind to join such a new organization. I knew that for me a decision would be for good,with no turning back. For me it was no passing game but grim earnest. Even then I had an instinctive revulsion toward men who start everything and never carry anything out These jacks-of-all-trades were loathsome to me.I regarded the activity of such people as worse than doing nothing.

    And this way of thinking constituted one of the main reasons why I could not make up my mind as easily as some others do to found a cause which either had to become everything or else would do better not to exist at all.

    Fate itself now seemed to give me a hint. I should never have gone into one of the existing large parties, and later on I shall go into the reasons for this more closely. This absurd little organization with its few members seemed to me to possess the one advantage that it had not frozen into an ‘organization,’ but left the individual an opportunity for real personal activity. Here it was still possible to work, and the smaller the movement, the more readily it could be put into the proper form. Here the content, the goal, and the road could still be determined, which in the existing great parties was impossible from the outset.

    So yes, again, whatever the politics of the organization were at the outset, once Hitler joined the organization in the late teens of the century, he sought to use that organization to HIS ends, not theirs.

    Dan

    March 18, 2008 at 4:03 pm

  21. Dan Mein Kamf was not written by Adolf Hitler.

    dawkinswatch

    March 18, 2008 at 10:24 pm

  22. Um, no. He wrote it (well, technically he dictated it).

    I guess I forgot that I’m dealing with an idiot.

    Dan

    March 19, 2008 at 7:27 am


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